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LED GROW

Printed From: Hemp Flax Forum
Category: Sensi Seeds
Forum Name: Indoor Growing
Forum Discription: Questions and answers about indoor cultivation
URL: http://forum.hempflax.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8316
Printed Date: 08 December 2019 at 00:07


Topic: LED GROW
Posted By: martiniGR
Subject: LED GROW
Date Posted: 08 April 2011 at 11:55
after a few weeks off-line, i am back!
The first results of growing with Led´s ...
First picture showing 4 clones
the 2 clones at the left had 100w led lights (distance 50 cm)after potting, the other two had 600 w hps (1 mtr distance)
the 2 at the right had an advantage of 3 days but then burn..
the led clones had no slowdown. they started to veg immediately!!!
Leds give no heat so you can give them full light from the beginning..
%3c3c3cndefined
 
btw these plants are Jack Flash # 5.
second picture a jf5 50 days 12-12, the plant was weak at the beginning of the led project, it was a left over clone.
My opinion is that the quality of the buds is better and stronger and more beautiful!
Less weight, but remember in summer when its hot and you use a 600w it will be extreme hot you get less yield with a 600w too!
The white hairs turn into fluo orange under the leds, under 600w they turn light brown,the plants seem less stressed under ledlights.
I experimented with several plants and systems. At this moment the result is for me that its best to flower under 50% 600w and 50% 100w leds ) what i did was
3 hrs 600w + 6 hrs led + 3 hrs 600w = 12 hrs. i guess 50% yield but better quality and it was a few weeks cold so 600w is better then, but in summer definately leds for me,
btw laws are getting worse and leds are more safe, less electricity use.
 
%3c3c3cndefined
Loads of thc..the plant will give around 10 grams of short cut weed, pot: 3 liter.edit
at the right side a small plant skunk type the pot had 3 plants 1 was a male which i used to cross with JF5 the other one was a bad tasting weed and this one is left over, maybe 1 or 2 grams
i have been away for a few weeks, its impossible to answer all pms and replies in the threads..sorry!!


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL



Replies:
Posted By: TheDeparted
Date Posted: 08 April 2011 at 12:45
nice to have u basck martini.
goodluck.


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Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 08 April 2011 at 15:12
Hi Johnny!!
Winter is over and i have been outside last weeks, nice weather!!
Next weeks i will start with the outdoor project in the outdoor section.
The above plants are for outdoor growing.
I had some problems with my soil i guess, plants stopped growing no roots etc.
Last week i bought new soil, the guy from the shop told me they stopped with the old brand and are now selling a new type soil...
Gold Label / special mix.?.
I have 1 White label White Gold plant rooting but she doesn't look happy after 12 days..


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: TheDeparted
Date Posted: 08 April 2011 at 15:57
well im sure u will sort her out ok.
looking forward to watching ur grow.
goodluck


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Posted By: mellow
Date Posted: 08 April 2011 at 17:05
good to have you back martini

lol,  i still cant see any pics you post? well maybe the odd one off your other topics but none on here.

intrested in LED's cause there cheap to run, cheap to buy and give off an extra 1 degreeish in heat. pity i cant see ya pics.

they sell the flat panels for about 30 squid on eybay.

cant wait to see if there worth a look in.


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 08 April 2011 at 19:44
Hi Chris!
i changed the pic name maybe you can see them now?
the led grow has positive sides and negative ones but a combination is working best.
for rooting leds, for veg 600w/100w combination i didn't tried to veg yet. All depending on temps outside. I give less water, less ventilation.
i bend the plants horizontal with for head branches it works ok.
i tried  for 5-6 weeks now, with 5 plants each plant a different age height. the first plant had 4 weeks 600w then 50/50 100w&600w for 5 weeks, the next plant 2 weeks 600w and then 7 weeks 100/600 every plant more led and less hps, the quality is better and the yield is less, but in hot summer??In the winter leds is not usefull, i have to give more heat in the room..i work with sunlight too at the moment depending on the weather..
see you all laterss


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: mellow
Date Posted: 08 April 2011 at 21:05
cool, so you've been giving them light alternate.

yep still can't see your pics, i see a big white box, just no image?


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 09 April 2011 at 07:31
i changed the name of the picture the name was led clone, but in the word clone is the word one and the computer doesnt like that..
The leds give blue and red light, better for clones  instead of tube lights which give daylight.
So i use an old type with 2 colors which is not complete but for over 90% it is ok.
Leds is ok as an extra and in hot summer it will be the main light and give better results than the 600 w hps.For the beginning and for the ending of the grow, first and last 2 weeks leds only is ok. the middle part of growing needs extra spectrum in orange and white, for extra yield, strength. I use 60 % of normal electricity at the moment, its not the costs of the electricity, its the electricitymeter that runs fast, i use alone the same electricity of 3 households..
Dutch law is changing, if they catch a grower with 600w's there is heat and it can cause fire, now the new thing is that, if there is a possibility for fire, they say you bring your neighbours in danger= maximum sentence 15 years!!!Instead of the maximum of 4 years for growing weed!I stepped over just before this new rule , leds dont get warm, less danger..


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: breizh ganja
Date Posted: 09 April 2011 at 09:49
fire is more dangerous than weed happy to heard you martini.

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Rémi Gaillard...take a look !


Posted By: Maasa
Date Posted: 09 April 2011 at 14:52
Pics was linked wrong so i felt obligated to insert the right ones %3cmoking


Now i shall read the post :-)




Posted By: mellow
Date Posted: 09 April 2011 at 15:00
cheers massa, i was blind now i can see.


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 09 April 2011 at 20:40

Thanks for solving the pic problem! MASSA

allo allo
Breizganja!
 
no news today , just 1 thing my White label White gold is rooted at last! 13 days..
The stem is a little red so a new survival project!
 


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: mellow
Date Posted: 09 April 2011 at 20:48
you may wanna have a look in to them aeropropnaters, jp says his clones are rooting quick with it, think red told him to try it.

when i can save up some pennies i'll by myself one, just gotta get the rest of the stuff first.


Posted By: Solidopc
Date Posted: 10 April 2011 at 21:04

That looks impressive. Very surpised the clone under the 600watt was so small in budsize. I've grown auto aks and auto hindu kush that yielded more outside in the uk. How well was she cared for, fed, ph, ec. All exactly the same as the leds?

I'm still nowhere near convinced leds will outperform hid lights yet. In the furture, but this is the first grow ive seen with such favourable results from the leds. Good on you for doing a side-by-side, need more of them.


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Green-Thumb Growing


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 10 April 2011 at 22:44
you all know i had problems with my clones...
its over !!
Maybe the tubelights were not bright enough,i dont know,today i looked at 2 other clones, they are doing very well, for me unbelievable..they make side branches fantastic lets make a picture...
%3c3cndefined
at the left a jack flash#5 at the right a survivester White gold
the jack clone is growing fast in a small pot of 7x7x10 cm
first 2 weeks and last 2 weeks thats where the led is good for and for extra support when its hot.
Important: my leds give only blue and red , is not complete, so i need some 600w hps or sunlight..
 


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 10 April 2011 at 22:53
the jack is only 7 cm and makes 10 side branches..

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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: Auto-Question-Bot
Date Posted: 11 April 2011 at 00:21
the jack is well bushy when growin im lookin forward to the clones rootin %3cpprove
the aeroponics rooting kits are cheap 65 quid for a 12 system also they are rooting quicker now 7 to 10 dayz now ive added clonex to the system, they that good im lookin at a aeroponics flower system just dunno which 1 to buy
ive just added pics of white gold 4 weeks in i think
peace bb


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Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 11 April 2011 at 19:05
bb, my seedplants of Jack were full of big leafs, never reached that again, so cloning is cheap but the quality of the plant goes down..but if i put a jackf in my garden she will give stronger plants again..let the summer begin and let the hedge be green soon!

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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 13 April 2011 at 19:48
BTW i bought the leds for a window project behind venetian blinds, i did this last year without any lights , with sun only.
I thought when its cloudy, i put on the leds, no one can see it its just leds..WRONG!!
They give a big pink light, i will search a picture from an other thread to show the light..


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 13 April 2011 at 19:53
%3cndefined
here you can see the 2 ufo's each 50watts

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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 14 April 2011 at 18:20


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 14 April 2011 at 18:48
I started my first led grow with 50/50 led/hps, above plant is an example of growing under leds without hps so as i told earlier in this thread i already know that the best formula is 50/50 but above plant is a test..maybe she will have much more thc i dont know, what i know is, the yield will not be maximum..

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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 21 April 2011 at 17:40
I said the plant looks weak but i meant thin and bushy,thin branches good airflow through the plant and she makes flowers at the moment she looks healthy and she has a nice shape, but small leafs and 3 /4 /5 bladed leafs..

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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 21 April 2011 at 18:13
BTW INSECTS:
insects cant see the spectrum of the leds (450/660) so they die, thats positive!!
I have some fruitflies/ blackflies when i gave only leds they disapeared, when i put a ledtubelight on with the normal bluewhite spectrum they multiply again, so its proven, as written on the sites of ledsuppliers, insects is over with led grow, without use of poison.


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: TheDeparted
Date Posted: 21 April 2011 at 19:57
well thats a great bonus to growing with led lights.
if only they can make all lights make insects dissapear.lol


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Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 21 April 2011 at 21:44
yeah jonny there is hope!
i am interested in the yield of my plant will it be acceptable or will it be a small yield, thats the question!The quality will be very good, but the weight? i have to wait a few weeks..the plant looks good a little long distance between 2 nodes but overall it might give massiv buds so lets wait and see, in this case she should give around 30/40 grams of short cut weed, if she gives at least 25 gram its ok for me ( i use 1/6 of normal electricity)


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 23 April 2011 at 12:36
above a jack flash under 600 w hps, 28 days 12/12 a few months ago, my Jack Flash under led lights is 28 days 12/12 aswell , i will make a picture and pu it on the thread to show the difference, its not science but the above plant looks bigger and fatter..


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 23 April 2011 at 12:44
%3cndefined
she looks thinner and she is because she stretched more under led than under hps but overall the shape looks healthier because its less massiv and more air can go through the plant.. BTW under led you see other colors than with hps, the white color (THC, Mold) is good to see so if the plant starts to get mold you can see it in an earlier stage! the above plant has buds around 60% of the jf5 under hps, but circumstances are different, its summer temps now instead of winter temps with the upper jf5.mention the smaller 4 bladers.

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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 23 April 2011 at 12:49
close up:


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 24 April 2011 at 18:24
 I forgot the most important info:::
haha.. Ok The important thing is : grow scrog-like, bend the plant so you get all headbuds at the same height!Put the leds at an distance of 20-30-40-50 cm depending on the space you have , i have a distance of 30 cm. Forget the lower buds..
or make cuttings from the lower sidebranches!
I looked on the net and utube found other growers and learned from their mistakes!


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 27 April 2011 at 16:35

new pictures 32 days 12/12 she had today hps light because it was cold for the rest last week only led. ok she gives less bud , but the structure of the plant is open and less problems with condense etc. a bit strange long and thin leafs and long leaf stemstoo


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: Auto-Question-Bot
Date Posted: 28 April 2011 at 00:24
we cant see the pics mart

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Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 28 April 2011 at 16:28
Thanks bb, itried to change the reply but i can see them, so i put them here again with a new name or if that doesnt work i make new ones..
%3cndefined
%3cndefined
reference plant 600w:
this one was in the winter with cold temps, i go with the flow so it was a cold time for the plant..


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 28 April 2011 at 16:30
not a good picture but you can see the difference internode length
edit:
i searched but i have no other pic of around 30 days 12/12.


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 28 April 2011 at 20:59
tomorrow i will make a daylight picture to show the real color

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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 29 April 2011 at 13:35
true colors
%3cndefined
that's why..
%3cndefined
i love her!


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 29 April 2011 at 13:37
the three finger leafs are caused by a low Ph imo she has already thc on the leafstems too.

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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: mellow
Date Posted: 29 April 2011 at 14:27
i see you sorted the pics out martini.%3chumbs%20Up

nice little plant ya got there.


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 01 May 2011 at 21:39
hj chris a while ago you told something about the Ph min, mine is a different type i guess because Ganja was surprised that i have phosphor for that.
you told 1 drop per  3 liter, it worked perfect, i am experimenting so i gave last weeks 1 per 2 liter and now i have a small problem, the strange 3 4 finger leafs, i gave last 2x water only and give again 1 per 3 liter that was perfect! So thanks for that advise!!


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 03 May 2011 at 16:34
today i gave the JF#5  2/3 dose of pk 13/14 because i remembered info from a ledlightsite that told the plants need less water but the water can contain 25 or 50% more food in it than normal.. we will see what happens!I didnt lower the Ph last days, she drinks a lot i give 50% led 50% hps.
BTW i give 100watts of led light for 50cm x 1 mtr, i could give 200 watts maybe the plant would give more weed but the main goal is reducing electricity use, not the yield.( i use 3x a familyconsumption in my home!)


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: Sudzer
Date Posted: 04 May 2011 at 11:16
Hi All,
New to the site, Just a Q with the led, BTW nice pics.

What ratio of LED types and wavelengths were you using?

I'm just trying to compare lighting types, brands and wavelengths to over all structure of the plant. ie- tall, short, elongated, big leaf, small leaf etc.


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 05 May 2011 at 16:20
Hi Sudzer, welcome at the site!
I use as i remember well 10x450nm and 40x660 nm = 50 watt x2 = 100watt
This spectrum is not enough but i use now and then a 600 watt with a spectrum  from around 450 to 660 that covers the wants of the plant , if you use leds alone you need the white and orange color to , blue and red is +/- 90 % of the need of the plants, some sunlight can help too for the other 10%. The modern leds have the complete spectrum if you want leds only then you have to use the modern led equipment, the equipment i use is called UFO's.
EDIT
They have 2 fans per UFO for cooling but there is almost no heat coming from the ufo's , in winter its better to use hps for heating up the room otherwise you should use a heater in the room, a hps is better then.


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: peivce
Date Posted: 06 May 2011 at 02:51
Lovely plants


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the best http://www.tmart.com/ - tmart online shopping give you choice more


Posted By: peivce
Date Posted: 06 May 2011 at 02:52
a low Ph imo she has already thc on the leafstems too.

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the best http://www.tmart.com/ - tmart online shopping give you choice more


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 06 May 2011 at 23:38
peivce welcome!
you have good eyes or you read the thread well, she had a to low Ph thats right!The leafs are misformed by that and she is very darkgreen all caused by the low Ph. i gave a week just tapwater and gave the last time a 2/3 dose pk 13 14. She had last week 600 watt because it was cold weather, now she is under leds again. Led grow is not holy for me.
If its better to give a few days hps , i do that! It is not a scientific test i am just an amateur..
 


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: Auto-Question-Bot
Date Posted: 07 May 2011 at 01:20
Originally posted by martiniGR

peivce welcome!
you have good eyes or you read the thread well, she had a to low Ph thats right!The leafs are misformed by that and she is very darkgreen all caused by the low Ph. i gave a week just tapwater and gave the last time a 2/3 dose pk 13 14. She had last week 600 watt because it was cold weather, now she is under leds again. Led grow is not holy for me.
If its better to give a few days hps , i do that! It is not a scientific test i am just an amateur..
 
  amateur lol it says your an advanced grower mart

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Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 07 May 2011 at 17:27
yeah m7, but i have a Ph problem! Its over now its better but the leafs are uneven asymetric and this causes more hairs with thc on the stems, strange enough..i had it with an otherplant too can't remember which on maybe surv o a clone #2?
We are advanced growers of the sensiforum m8, i have extra status in the coffeeshop now.. %3cpprove


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 07 May 2011 at 17:34
%3cndefined

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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 07 May 2011 at 17:38
picture 1: at the left the ledgrow example plant in 12 liters pot
the wg in the middle and 3x jf5 in 2.7 liter (weak)
 
picture 2 :at the left the Whit Gold at the right  the JF#5 in 12 liter.
 
 picture 3 :close up JF#5 in 12 liter : misformed leafs in the top of the buds
 


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: Rastakolnikov
Date Posted: 07 May 2011 at 17:54



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Champagne for my real friends.
Real pain for my sham friends.


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 08 May 2011 at 14:08
the plant is now 43 days 12/12 i think she will give around 20 grams,
 that's not much!
This means for 1 plant you need at least 100 watts instead of 50 watts,
 the weight will be (guessing..) 50% or less than under a 600watt hps but under a 600watt i can put 5 plants this means the electricity i have to use is under leds the same as the hps..
this is not a final result, just guessing.. the plant did not veg long was maybe in the beginning not strong..
the only advance with leds is
the low temperature in summer,
 less insects,
earlier warning with problems like mold and burn( caused by the light color),
no detection,
 less ventilation and a good quality but not a good yield...


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 09 May 2011 at 22:52
today i checked the soil, not much roots...i dont know why...it can be caused by the soil and it can caused by the leds, i have to make a new test to find out... this led grow test is mostly a disapointing test..My first test without a thread on the forum was better than this test...i work with a new soil so thats why i don't know what to think about the results..this JF#5 plant has a low yield much to low,lower than last time/ my first test..
I think the soil is the problem so don't conclude leds dont work, i have to make a new test!


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 10 May 2011 at 12:37
there is 1 positive thing about the buds, which are as big as my thumb (= small) they are solid/rockhard!

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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: sarah louise
Date Posted: 10 May 2011 at 13:16
Originally posted by martiniGR

the plant is now 43 days 12/12 i think she will give around 20 grams,
 that's not much!

And 43 days in 12/12 is not much time in flower for jf#5!!!! 55-75days = more flowers!!!!!111one

Let us know what it's like to smoke Martini %3cig%20smile


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What doesn't kill me just makes me stranger...


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 11 May 2011 at 03:39
she's not ready now Sarah Louise, but i can conclude that she will have a very small yield.
The smoke will be very good and heavy, its a very strong strain , i have never seen a plant with this lots of thc.And a good smoke is the most important!at the end of the month i will harvest her she is then 63 days,earlier grows showed the pheno is then ready (imo).its a disapointing test.doesnt matter i learned again something..


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: sarah louise
Date Posted: 11 May 2011 at 12:55
lol thought you were cutting at day 43, jack flash#5 is on my list of 'must try' strains now that they are available in a 5 pack.

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What doesn't kill me just makes me stranger...


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 11 May 2011 at 13:49
I can recommend the JF5, i make from the fan leafs a kind of hash without using a screen: just pushing the thc loaded loaded leafs in my hand, push a while , let it dry a day and ready!
It looks like Manali hash from india but it is dry, no oil involved/added. It smokes like the old Malawi weed from the 80's,dry but heavy!


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 11 May 2011 at 13:59
For the fun: i tell my friends its hash from Libia ssstttt...

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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: Whoever
Date Posted: 21 May 2011 at 14:52
Digital HPS POWER!!! Plasma light soon.


Posted By: TheUkOne
Date Posted: 27 May 2011 at 14:46

hi martingr what was the final outcome off the led grow ?



Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 08 January 2012 at 19:36
hi uk 1
the result is good, low yield good or better quality weed, spectrum not complete enough, usefull in some (hot) situations, noisy (coolers).
best is imo 400w hps and 4x 50w led in the corners. A combination


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 09 January 2012 at 21:04
The lifetime of a LED depends on the temperature of the led while burning.
there are 2 types of led lights: with and without cooler. the ones without cooler live about 20-30.000 hrs, the latest LEDS with cooler live 80.000 hrs.
LED with cooler : noise, long life
Led without cooler: short life Especialy the led tl's


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 12 January 2012 at 08:23
And safety:
the Leds are much safer, no heat (no detection,better environment, less water and food use) and there is no power peak, you dont need a relay / relais,
if you want yield, don't use the LED but hps, if you want quality, try a LED, 1 x 50 watt LED is enough for 50 x 50 cm, i paid 130 euri (eurupiah) for the 50 w. last year.
 edit 13 - 1 2012:
and a picture of a lot of plants under 2 x 50 watts, in the middle of the hot summer 2011. 
for 5 days it was the only lightsource, in a hot period the Leds are use full.
 
http://1.1.1.3/bmi/forum.sensiseeds.com/images/users/a_martinigr/ledgrow_white_gold_and_jack_flash.jpg - http://1.1.1.3/bmi/forum.sensiseeds.com/images/users/a_martinigr/ledgrow_white_gold_and_jack_flash.jpg


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 18 January 2012 at 15:18
I get more and more experienced with the leds..
I have found an explanation why my opinion until today is
Under led better but less buds.
my led light has 50 x 1 watt leds:
10 blue leds and 40 red leds.
this means an overdosis red spectrum and not enough blue spectrum.
Thats why the buds are so very solid , as solid as i have ever seen.The plants are small but the buds very solid, look at the small Jack Flash bud:
 
you see a very solid endbud. so with some 400 watt hps in the middle can be the perfect combination OR at the end before harvest extra led light, (after the stretch is over) i will keep experimenting, bud the buds are better, so if some one wants to win a cup..you cant without leds.Thats my opinion for this moment.The led is not bad!


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 26 January 2012 at 17:31
Today i was in a ( more than 20 years old ) growshop and i talked about my LED experience , my conclusion is that the growshops are very much bizzy with this subject although they dont sell the equipment yet.
People are trying to find the right mix between the different colors.
Well that mix is quite simple if you have the book : closetgrow written by E Rosenthal.
In this book is a diagram of the colors that are needed!
In my opinion in a few years every one grows under LED with a 2 gram per watt.., i heard this should be possible already, with the right mix.. i have only blue and red.
What is important for the LED builders and buyers is the cooling of the leds, atm leds live up to 80000 hrs, cheap equipment bad ventilation/cooling lasts only 20000 hrs.
And the guy was interested in the price i paid for my 50 watts, So i feel, people are bizzy with it and the growshops will step over in a while..
its just guessing


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: mellow
Date Posted: 26 January 2012 at 17:50
Hey Martini,

I had a demonstration with a leading LED company, they were explaining how they have come on leaps and bounds in the last year and theres some new tech that will be out later in the year, which will be 30% brighter for the same consumption. That was to do with normal lighting though not grow lights, lol.

So are you still using the hps with the leds?



Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 26 January 2012 at 19:36
Hi Chris!
 Yes i use the hps mostly until the stretch is over and then i give mostly leds its all about finding a balance, i trust the hps still the most, cant without it, or i have to accept  25% yield.
The 80000 hrs is recent news from the radio, i pick up info where i can. ( not true, i am not searching the internet), i am trying to make  the most out of my situation, i have for example an old and ( ofcourse) cheap quality!
The newest have a complete spectrum from far red to ultra violet.
An other interesting thing.......
They work on 12 volt if you want , you can grow in your car too..CarGrow haha
serious, mobile growunits will be the future..or ....not.
My first opinion was : aslong as philips isnt producing these LED things a lot, it cant be ok, but now i understand, its not their corebizniz and they dont want to harm their legal image ofcourse. I dont think Philips will bring a small version to the market or maybe for growing herbs in the kitchen.
this thread might look  a bit loose info but i use it as a notebook.
the 12 volt option.. i didnt talk about this until now, has a huge future. For example i dont need the 230 volt anymore in my house and i will save lots of money.. i hope.


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 27 January 2012 at 15:32
source:Kastwiet /Ed Rosenthal/ first print 1990-91/(closetgrow)
my free interpretation schedule:
 


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 27 January 2012 at 17:48
new diagram hps against the wants:


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 27 January 2012 at 17:54
so i start more and more to believe that the blue and red LEDS are as extra lightsource very good but are they enough or should i step over to 2 x 100 watt or more, at this moment i believe my 50 watts are to small to make a difference, i ll keep trying..

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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: dylmadness
Date Posted: 27 January 2012 at 20:46
hi,I read the posts on LED lights ,this is something i have been very interested in, having no mains electric any more.i have had ten years with using metal halide and sodium lights. but now we live in a lovely house but no leccy,we are using deep cycle batteries witch have their limitations.and fuel costs are going through the roof.the low energy use of LED seems to be remarkable e.g. 28 watts equal to 250w sod and 180w equal to 600w.Having read many reviews on LED's they have improved increadibly over the last few yrs. it seems that they can be very affordable but....i would avoid the cheep imports that have high claims.there are proven LED systems,so my plan is to go with the PRO Sourse ufo LED or smaller sister lights.there is hope for a continuos cyle once again I have missed the indoor control ohhhhhhhhhh yes!


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 27 January 2012 at 21:48
Maybe in the futere we make (already) our own energy with solar cells etc.
you can use solar cells under the hps for a fan on 12 volt.
And batteries have improved a lot too!
future is near!
its all about the right spectrum x "lumen"
maybe, my opinion for a good combination is:
1 x 600 hps +
10x 400nm
70x 450nm
80 x 650nm
5x 700nm
this is a 165 watt led + hps theory, 650 nm should be 660 or 650 and 660 and 450 maybe 440 etc.
the leds i use werent the best , i knew this , but my goal was growing behind a window in summer, in combination with the leds this would be a complete spectrum with extra red and blue.
the leds were to bright to use behind the window, so i use the leds for indoor grow, as a lightsource the leds are not powerfull enough, 50 watts is 1 plant is 25% yield is 50x50 cm.
even a 100% better stronger quality would give maybe 50% yield of a normal hps grow..
 
Even if the leds can make us independent for energy only,
its a giant step forward for mankind!?Or something..
Ugh.


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: dylmadness
Date Posted: 28 January 2012 at 23:47
i checked out a promo vid on youtube witch was for the prosource ufo 180w LED light i believe, and the results were looking very impressive. ive not the best understandind of lumens ,but do understand the nessecary spectrum in both growth and flower these lights have settings for both stages,the other mention was that the leds provide all the spectrum needed and none of those that arn't like the green end.the life cycle of the lights is around 100,000 hours near 12 years daily use. this has definitely caught my attention i'm looking forward to seeing more results from new endevers.


Posted By: Toni.ss
Date Posted: 04 February 2012 at 14:09
Hello Martin
 
Congratulations, you did very good research%3clap. I already had in mind the acquisition of LED lights to eliminate power consumption and heat. You answered with this research to one or two doubts I had. eg if I add in small amounts HPS lights helped to complement the bud production without stressing the plants. I'm still very new at this%3ceed%20leaf.
 
Thank you best wishes


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Put out my flames with gasoline


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 06 February 2012 at 09:45
hi TonySS !
I keep experimenting ! If you have 1 hps as a basic light source you can use the leds for extra mtr2's ,
There is not much real info available, most info comes from LEDfirms who see a hole in the market , the have NO knowledge about plants but have knowledge about earning fast money.Independent info about leds is almost nowhere..
The test grows i saw where hps growers growing hps style under leds without good results..OFCOURSE!
The plant behaves different, there is no heatpeak under the bulb, it is all different, under leds.Diff stems, diff  leafs, diff buds, diff food scedule diff temp dif hum diff ventilation everything works different, including rooting.
 


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 06 February 2012 at 09:53
Hi Dylmadness!
 Good that you start about the lumens!
Led light is not measured in lumens ( websites that speak about led and lumens are not the good ones!!)
Lumens is what the human eye sees, leds give light in the unvisible blue and red so maybe if the light are on you only see 50% (i guess) so leds are measured in something else, i forgot what.
What important is is that lumens say nothing in LED grow!
And if you want to buy leds first look around on the websites of different suppliers, there is a lot of bluff, they fight there marketshare.


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 15 February 2012 at 18:51
last test result:
plants had 400 hps until the stretch was over after that they had 50/50 led and hps and last 2 weeks only led.
i used 400 w son t agro master pia + green power hps and 2 ufo's of 50 w each , i used 1.5 m2 grow space.
normaly i use for the same space 1 hps of 600 w. so i saved 100 watts which is almost 20 % less electricity.
the yield was 80% of the yield from under hps only.
The buds were more solid than under hps only.
Btw i grow not with 1 lot plants but with different lots/height.the space was constantly filled with different age plants so it is not an exact result but it is less worse than expected
80% yield is almost ok if you have more solid,healthier buds!
The plant loves the leds but doesnt show a big yield.My plants were scrog-like grown , i think plants with one headbud will give less yield.
The plants drink less and use less food, it is 1-0 for hps but not 100% in all cases, LED is nice as an extra light source.
I wouldnt try a 100% led grow at this moment, for that i need a wider and stronger spectrum.


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: mellow
Date Posted: 15 February 2012 at 19:37
well to quote dylan 'the time are a changing' I honestly think that in the next couple of years, they'll do the job.


Posted By: sicklehand
Date Posted: 16 February 2012 at 09:46
well they better get changing soon as i think the EU are planning to ban hps lamps along with some other inefficient bulbs starting this year. dooms day is upon us

* 2012: Phase out of high-pressure sodium (HPS) standard quality lamps (only E27/ E40/ PGZ12 affected).


Posted By: mellow
Date Posted: 16 February 2012 at 13:03
source sickle?

If true that's teribal news. As someone who sells lighting systems, I thought I would have heard of this as it would mean masive benifits to my company. We had the lighting expert down the other week, and i asked him that exact question. I said the gov are making us get rid of halogen light bulbs and making us use floro's, will this happen for business's, he said now way. At the mo at HPS is the most cost effective lighting, but led's are catching?


Posted By: sicklehand
Date Posted: 16 February 2012 at 13:50
bloody hell mellow your a handy bloke to know, there's a very exciting pdf file on the eu website lol it sounds like they are going to start with counsels, businesses,etc and work down to domestic use by 2020. not only that it will be illegal to import/sell them in the eu. but i could be wrong



Posted By: mellow
Date Posted: 16 February 2012 at 14:59
Jesus,

Time to start stock pilling then, lol.


Posted By: sicklehand
Date Posted: 16 February 2012 at 15:12
its not only hps it MH,t5 t12, some cfl's but i would of thought they would offer an alternative(leds), at the very least the hps we know and love is going to change


Posted By: dylmadness
Date Posted: 17 February 2012 at 21:43
If what i'm hearing is true then that is bad....i was hoping that when i finally get a steady source of power from a water turbine, that may not happen for a few years yet, that the HPS's would come out of their boxes have the dust blown off, and that the indoor fields would be fat once again. But the LED industry is there as the light at the end of the tunnel, excuse the punn.


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 02 June 2012 at 11:32
ok back online again and i have some results:
Last months i grew a few plants with a different harvest date, this ment that at the last 4 weeks ,i had 2 plants in 11 liter,
difficult in english , the situation was 2 plants filling all the space under the 400 watts hps, so i switched off the extra Leds, the result is LESS SOLID BUDS, a good yield nut the buds are not solid. Under the leds the buds get more solid, this is an interesting situation,
if you want to earn money, grow under hps if you want to win a cup use at least some extra leds.. what will happen in the future?
If the led price goes down there will be a moment that it is affordable to grow under leds, maybe the electricity use will rise growing under 1000 watts led instead of 400 watts hps, if you harvest a better weed ,then others have to follow, i find it a nice subject, leds, smoking thinking how future will be..


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 20 August 2012 at 14:51
the problem with leds is they have a single frequency, so blue is only 450 not f.e. 400 -500. so it means you need lots of different leds frequencies to fill the gaps between 450 and 660. so thats why its better to have an hps extra to fill these gaps.
but in the situation today here, 30 celcius or more it is a good alternative for a few hot days. with a hps only it is muuuuch to hot now, it would kill the plants with this heat.. it was last days 33 celcius.
 as a only light source the led 450+660 is not enough, even with a few extra leds like orange, and other colours, you will still have gaps the plants need a full spectrum!
 
example picture, i have in the middle between 2 led ufos 1 tubelight led, 4500 K(?) bluewhite, for my eyes and to have more room -space for the plants, its an old picture of a burned plant its now flowering in my garden and will give 1-5 grams only..%3cisapprove%3ctern%20%3cmile


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: obsessive
Date Posted: 09 September 2012 at 22:31
If i understand the debate correctly the sun is not digital. Its a bit like the old debate between vinyl and cd. The LED light is constant and fixed. I have been using blue cfl's for first 4 weeks to get leaf development before using dual specrum HPS for rest of life. This brings in a similar cost saving of about 20% over 600 hps from the beginning. The capital cost of an LED system is prohibitive for personal use model. It seems we will have to stockpile bulbs lol for some time.


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 27 September 2012 at 14:49
Hi obsessive, you are right it is the same thing as the vinyl and cd!! thats how it is! in futere it will be better but for now you need many colors of leds lijk blue, red ,orange and the rest ( which are less important but still a little important, only green is not used by the plants for as far as i know)
 
I discovered something else:
my ufos were bought as 10 blue and 40 red ones, in reality it is 6 blue and 44 red!!
kill the supplier%3chumbs%20Up


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 29 September 2012 at 11:19
btw there is another new light system named PLASMA light, the researchers and developers look at the wrong way, they try to imitate sunlight , that is not a real goal to work towards to, it is the wants of the plant what should be the goal..
the plasma gives from blue to red almost the same quantity of light but the plant needs blue and red most, then orange and a little of the others...
but that is an other discussion.. the same as the discussion about coffeeshops and growshops, THE CUSTOMER is the boss, not the boss!
If they would under stand that i would not be here but on the bahamas or with ben and ed in thailand...%3cnhappy
I stopped years ago in the bizniz, i didnt found the right people to make rich...
i had the best suppliers in the world, but again that is not the goal... its a tool.


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: mellow
Date Posted: 29 September 2012 at 11:53
Hey Martini,

Hope you are well :).

You moved to germany now? or still throwing curve balls.


Posted By: ak50
Date Posted: 19 November 2012 at 22:55
Hi LED growers.... need some advise ...
could you look into here ? and tell me if you heared about this before?
http://forum.sensiseeds.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=11127&PN=7 - http://forum.sensiseeds.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=11127&PN=7
 
thanks in advance %3cuch
 AK


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 20 November 2012 at 15:04
hi ak50!
IHAd the problem, the cause was to much water so the plant makes no roots in that case.
i would say less water and let it dry out a bit,wait until the plant improves and start feeding again.


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 20 November 2012 at 15:06
i think the plant had no roots enough when the plants started to grow under the lights.
take a week for rooting


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 22 November 2012 at 14:39
Hi Chris, i have now 3 strains, white gold, martini haze and a new bakardy haze (Martini haze x white gold)
i had 3 new plants, 1 with a good taste and 2 with a not good taste all from my crossing with the mh and wg.
takes 6 months work..
i have all equipment new and doing small with 5 plants.
hope for a warm winter, less heatcosts. i have a digital ballast 225 watt/275/400/ 440 no relay anymore, i have 24/24 lights on and i work with an extra dark room.
not much news..


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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 22 July 2013 at 14:41
i have 2 new photoos of a bud  35 days led only, its in the cannabisphoto section because i cant reduce size not enough for the forum. look it is already loaded with thc.. lots imo

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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: martiniGR
Date Posted: 26 July 2013 at 11:14
i found out (again) the white hairs are longer than under Hps and the color is nice orange instead of brown, so there are some differences under led, plants start to be ready, i have 2 bakardys at the moment under 50 watts each, 44 red and 6 blue.

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Some say friends do not exist, we cant make words for things that do not exist...
Willie van het Kerkhof, Groningen NL


Posted By: Schwarzenegger
Date Posted: 28 July 2013 at 12:14
good going! I am really interested in the end results of a " 24/24/0/0" setup
it demands some serious dedication to be growing that style Martini!

Not everyone has the discipline to switch the plants twice a day
if it works out you might have a nice little batch of high end product to see you through the cold dark winter..




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"New shit has come to light, man" -the big Lebowski


Posted By: J.B. Walton
Date Posted: 23 July 2014 at 22:35
I brought this story up again to support the coversation of today in an other thread for ... girard..

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NEW HASH PICTURES In the photogallery!them. New law march 2015: if you have a grow question then send me a private message.
I will give no grow info in public anymore.



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