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i love weed View Drop Down
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  Quote i love weed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: flushing plants
    Posted: 02 September 2008 at 13:38
hi again growers, jst cut down my to super skunk plants and have a couple of questions 2 ask! firstly when i started growing i used biobizz allmix soil which raised a healthy 3 week old plant, then i moved to a 10ltre pot with more allmix in it. By the 2nd week of flowering i noticed the leaves looking a sickly green colour (verging on yellow) so i started using bio grow and bloom which didnt do much for the sickly leaves but new growth returned to a nice dark green. About week 7 of flowering ( when about 70% of hairs started going brown i started to flush ( about 4 or 5 feeds of jst pure water) The leaves started going yellow and falling of some were looking a wee bit purple. The thing is i was moving house so i still had another week of growing left. There was no time to start the nuits again  and reflush so i jst kept flushing (about another 4 or 5 pure water feeds). I manages to cut down hundreds of big buds that had yellow and slightly purple leaves due to not enough fertalizer. I thought at least it wont b full of fertalizer right? but when u smoke it the ash is nice and grey and it burns evenly, but its not got the best smell or tast and it sizzles and sparks when smoked! surely it cant still have fertalizer in it due to the fact i flushed for ages and the plant was in need of nuits? any help would really b great. thanks again guys.
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  Quote GhostMod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2008 at 15:05
If you're using organic fertilisers, you don't need to flush nearly as much as with hydro nutrients.

Because hydro feed is water soluble, it can be taken up by plants in greater amounts than they need (less of a problem when nutes are carefully measured, but most hydro growers tend to over-feed at first) . This is why flushing hydro systems is important, and is more important for plants that've been overfed.
 Even with overfeeding, flushing for more than 7-10 days is not necessary, and a hyrdo crop that hasn't been overfed only really needs 3-5 days flush.

Organic nutrients don't usually build up in plants, even when they're overfed (but the new 'organic hydro' fully soluble ones might). Bio-grown plants probably only only need 3-5 days flush as well.

Not sure why the weed would be sizzling and sparking though.


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  Quote i love weed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 September 2008 at 14:33
Thanks for the reply ghostmod! I havnt got pictures to show u, but by the sounds of it do u think there might hav been a nuitrient difficiency or lack of nuits for that matter? Still cant quite understand why it sizzles and parks when u smoke, and the weed  smells and tastes like hash with a not so nice smell/ aftertaste. also dont know if this will help, but i lost quite alot of leaves during the grow!
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  Quote mydayg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2009 at 03:22
Contributed by: vaaran
Submitted: November 15th, 2004

Pre harvest flushing is a controversial topic. Flushing is supposed to improve taste of the final bud by either giving only pure water, clearing solutions or extensive flushing for the last 7-14 days of flowering. While many growers claim a positive effect, others deny any positive influence or even suggest reduced yield and quality.

The theory of pre harvest flushing is to remove nutrients from the grow medium/root zone. A lack of nutrients creates a deficiency, forcing the plant to translocate and use up its internal nutrient compounds.

Nutrient fundamentals and uptake:

A good read about plant nutrition can be found here.

Until recently it was common thought that all nutrients are absorbed by plant roots as ions of mineral elements. However in newer studies more and more evidence emerged that additionally plant roots are capable of taking up complex organic molecules like amino acids directly thus bypassing the mineralization process.

The major nutrient uptake processes are:

1) Active transport mechanism into root hairs (the plant has to put energy in it, ATP driven) which is selective to some degree. This is one way the plant (being immobile) can adjust to the environment.

2) Passive transport (diffusion) through symplast to endodermis.

http://www.biol.sc.edu/courses/bio102/f99-3637.html

The claim only ‘chemical’ ferted plants need to be flushed should be taken with a grain of salt. Organic and synthetic ferted plants take up mineral ions alike, probably to a different degree though. Many influences play key roles in the taste and flavor of the final bud, like the nutrition balance and strength throughout the entire life cycle of the plant, the drying and curing process and other environmental conditions.

3) Active transport mechanism of organic molecules into root hairs via endocytosis.

Here is a simplified overview of nutrient functions:

Nitrogen is needed to build chlorophyll, amino acids, and proteins. Phosphorus is necessary for photosynthesis and other growth processes. Potassium is utilized to form sugar and starch and to activate enzymes. Magnesium also plays a role in activating enzymes and is part of chlorophyll. Calcium is used during cell growth and division and is part of the cell wall. Sulfur is part of amino acids and proteins.

Plants also require trace elements, which include boron, chlorine, copper, iron, manganese, sodium, zinc, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, and silicon.

Copper, iron, and manganese are used in photosynthesis. Molybdenum, nickel, and cobalt are necessary for the movement of nitrogen in the plant. Boron is important for reproduction, while chlorine stimulates root growth and development. Sodium benefits the movement of water within the plant and zinc is neeeded for enzymes and used in auxins (organic plant hormones). Finally, silicon helps to build tough cell walls for better heat and drought tolerance.

http://www.sidwell.edu

You can get an idea from this how closely all the essential elements are involved in the many metabolic processes within the plant, often relying on each other.

Nutrient movement and mobility inside the plant:

Besides endocytosis, there are two major pathways inside the plant, the xylem and the phloem. When water and minerals are absorbed by plant roots, these substances must be transported up to the plant's stems and leaves for photosynthesis and further metabolic processes. This upward transport happens in the xylem. While the xylem is able to transport organic compounds, the phloem is much more adapted to do so.

The organic compounds thus originating in the leaves have to be moved throughout the plant, upwards and downwards, to where they are needed. This transport happens in the phloem. Compounds that are moving through the phloem are mostly:
Sugars as sugary saps, organic nitrogen compounds (amino acids and amides, ureides and legumes), hormones and proteins.

http://www.sirinet.net

Not all nutrient compounds are moveable within the plant.

1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem.
Deficiency appears on old leaves first.

2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem.
Deficiency appears on new leaves first.

http://generalhorticulture.tamu.edu

Storage organelles:

Salts and organic metabolites can be stored in storage organelles. The most important storage organelle is the vacuole, which can contribute up to 90% of the cell volume. The majority of compounds found in the vacuole are sugars, polysaccharides, organic acids and proteins though.

http://jeb.biologists.org.pdf

Translocation:

Now that the basics are explained, we can take a look at the translocation process. It should be already clear that only mobile elements can be translocated through the phloem. Immobile elements cant be translocated and are not more available to the plant for further metabolic processes and new plant growth.

Since flushing (in theory) induces a nutrient deficiency in the rootzone, the translocation process aids in the plants survival. Translocation is transportation of assimilates through the phloem from source (a net exporter of assimilate) to sink (a net importer of assimilate). Sources are mostly mature fan leaves and sinks are mostly apical meristems, lateral meristem, fruit, seed and developing leaves etc.

You can see this by the yellowing and later dying of the mature fan leaves from the second day on after flushing started. Developing leaves, bud leaves and calyxes don’t serve as sources, they are sinks. Changes in those plant parts are due to the deficient immobile elements which start to indicate on new growth first.

Unfortunately, several metabolic processes are unable to take place anymore since other elements needed are no longer available (the immobile ones). This includes processes where nitrogen and phosphorus, which have likely the most impact on taste, are involved.

For example nitrogen: usually plants use nitrogen to form plant proteins. Enzyme systems rapidly reduce nitrate-N (NO3-) to compounds that are used to build amino-nitrogen which is the basis for amino acids. Amino acids are building blocks for proteins, most of them are plant enzymes responsible for all the chemical changes important for plant growth.

Sulfur and calcium among others have major roles in production and activating of proteins, thereby decreasing nitrate within the plant. Excess nitrate within the plant may result from unbalanced nutrition rather than an excess of nitrogen.

http://muextension.missouri.edu

Summary:

Preharvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are loosing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with preharvest flushing.

Drying and curing (when done right) on the other hand have proved (In many studies) to have a major impact on taste and flavour, by breaking down chlorophylls and converting starches into sugars. Most attributes blamed on unflushed buds may be the result of unbalanced nutrition and/or overfert and unproper drying/curing.
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  Quote Compassion club Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2009 at 22:27
Hi, my experience over the past 15 years has been that the flushing is one of your most important steps, organic or salt feed, they really need a good flush. In a hydro or peat moss, I run clones at 400 ppm, Then veg at 500ppm and flower at no more then 800 ppm, any thing more seems to cause slight damage and so forth. The flushing is usually 20-30 days, so for a skunk that flowered for 60 days, I would start flushing around day 35-40 depending on leaf colour. More green, longer flush is need. Plants love potassium, so the last number in your feed should alway's be the highest number. In hydro veg and flower with 2.5-2-5, high middle number keeps your plants short and stocky, in soil use 2.5-3-5 as a feed ratio of N.P.K. Yield has been with usually about 1.5-2.5 pounds per 1000w depending on strain.
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  Quote BigRedKeith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2009 at 10:15

Hi Guys,

Not sure if either of the last two posts here address the question of why the smoke is sparking and spitting, but loads of great info. Maybe Ganja could post this as a help file on Flushing and its benefits.

To the question, i am not positive on this, its just a theory, but the spitting could be down to your drying process. For a long time i have thought that if you dry the buds in a closed environment, any nuts that have not been used by the plants are left in the bud. If there is a high proportion of Potasium left in the bud and it has no opportunity to evaporate and leach out into the stalks during the first part of the drying process, then that could cause the sparking and perhaps the nasty taste.

By taking the bud off the stalk imediately and drying it in a closed environment, whatever was in the bud stays in the bud. Now i dont know how you dried yours but its the only real solution i have i am affraid.
 
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  Quote Compassion club Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2009 at 23:32
In my experience the the sparking and spitting can be related to dry time in days, and also if the plants were misted with any type of product. Once the first week of flower is started water is the only product that can be sprayed on the flowers , other wise what ever is used will get into the bud, and as it grows, water can't wash it off. So it get s locked into the middle of the bud., and you will be smoking it,hence the sparkle. Harsh or black is feed problem. When leached, most will disagree, but all leaves need to be yellow. In natural the fall is mostly rainy, and leaf's turn yellow and it is the end of the plants cycle. What we put into the plant to grow it must be brought out. A perfect crop which is rare even for the most experienced is when the ash is a powder white with slight grey, even if quick dried. You should have the ash turn to dust, rather then black chunks of carbon, from uncooked fertilizer still in the plant. Even with organic you can have black ash's of burnt fertilizer. For drying, best is, trim leafs off, hang upside down on stock, in a dark room, little air circulation with 60 f and 50% humidty. After 7-10 days trim off, place in brown paper bags 2-5 days, and then bag it. Let it sweat the moisture, so all of the bud is same consistency. A chemical is released which converts the thc into a slightly stronger form, by acetate, a chemical formed in curing. Smoke and enjoy your well cured product.
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  Quote bartmanuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2009 at 00:32
you talk rubbish dude,
in nature the earth has more natural nutrients in it than what we add during a grow, and plants dont go yellow at the end when in the ground, not unless they are being grown in very poor earth.
 
and NEVER put your buds into paper bags of any sort, paper will draw out any moisture in your buds, leaving them far to dry.
 
 
 
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  Quote sarah louise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 August 2009 at 02:56
CC - If you want to post insults go to /b/, here it is act like an adult or piss off. I am not in the mood for you ethnocentric bullshit. 
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  Quote Ganja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 August 2009 at 12:06
Hey there Sarah, good to see ye around the forums. Hope you're feeling better!
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No growing questions by PM, please!
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  Quote sarah louise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 August 2009 at 14:06
Not too bad thanks Ganja, finishing my second course of antivirals and weaning off the steroids. Fatigue is still a problem, but that's pretty normal for me after any virus.

Lost a few plants to neglect, cold and a new leak in the greenhouse roof, but I still have clones inside, so no real tragedy.

Now I just need to get my 'I survived Pig Flu' t-shirt and I'll be ready for spring planting.
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  Quote Compassion club Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 August 2009 at 23:20
No problem, Sarah. It seems O.K for other's to insult me first and put me down for information I provide. But when it comes to me defending my self it is not o.k. No hard feelings . Take care
In the end we are all working for the same cause, to better the knowledge of each other and plants we all share the same enjoyment from. Peace to all those who may have been offended.
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  Quote BigRedKeith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2009 at 14:32
Hi Sarah, Ganja, i do understand that moding is vital for the successfull running of the board, and removing personal insults is an important part of that process, but with the knowledge you two have amassed over the years, i think the least you guys could do is offer an opinion on the initial question.
 
After all, if all we do is remove problem posts, the new contributers to the board will loose interest as some seemingly unrelated verbal wars break out in the middle of their posted question.
 
I have attempted to do a little more research into this problem and it would appear that it could also be down to an unusual situation similar to Nitrogen lockout. From what i can gather, your biobiz was providing aa small over fert sitiation and whan you flushed for an extended period, it was suposed to repair the situation. What happens sometimes however is that the plant seeks to get its now deprived nuts from elsware, ie, the parts of the plant that were previously over fead and became overloaded with potasium, ie the lower leaves.
 
Because the plant had no other form of nuts to fill the bud out with during the final phase, it filled them with the excess potasium from the lower branches and since potasium cannot be expelled during the normal photosynth and capillary actions without sufficient levels of nitrogen to act as a transport method, it became trapped in the bud and remaind their during the drying and curing phase.
 
If you have ever smelled potasium you will know it smells rank and we all know from school that it also ignights in a violent manner when put into contact with O2 and an ignition source, similar to magnesium.
 
I think, as long as you dont over fert and then starv your plants, you should not replicate the problem. as for solving the issue with your current stash, sorry, cant find any solutions.
 
BRK%3crea%3cy
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  Quote sarah louise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2009 at 02:40
Keith I don't tend to post unless I have something new to add to the discussion and Ghost Mod got in before me.

What can I say? I don't flush as a regular event and I have never grown weed that crackles, sizzles or sparks.
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  Quote bartmanuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2009 at 21:22
hey sara,
 
good to see you back, i actually missed cc's insults, probably a good job knowing me, lol %3cmbarrass%3cd
 
and im with you on the flushing thing, my weed never sparks or crackles either %3co%20high
 
 
 
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I grow weed for my own use and feel no guilt over it.If you want to arrest me,fine,thats your job.My aim is to put real criminals out of business by refusing to pay into the illegal distribution scene
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