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Does scrog or sog increase yields?

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ascendedmind View Drop Down
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  Quote ascendedmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Does scrog or sog increase yields?
    Posted: 21 March 2005 at 22:41

What is the jury on this?

The more I research the scrog & sog technique the more that I find contradictory info.

Greg Green , author of Cannabis Grow Bible makes the claim that it can depending on the breed & genetics of the Cannabis Seedstrain.

I plan on growing "white widow" a sativa & indica hybrid, because its supposedly compact.

I also plan on growing the indica plants "Oasis" & "Skywalker" by Dutch Passion.

I am also investigating seedstrains by sensi seeds that are compact indica  implants or something comparable or similar to either "white widow", "oasis" or "skywalker" by Dutch Passion.

I want to increase the yield of these cannabis plants for growing commercially, but do not want to slow down the flowering process.

Do you recommend either sog or scrog for increasing yield of the plants I mentioned above?

I plan on growing 1 plant per square foot so it can have maximum light penetration & yield.

I also plan on starting the flowering process for the indica plants at 12 inches of plant height to avoid premature flowering.

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  Quote milehigh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2005 at 17:23
I always tie my mine over but never clip them(SOG). I believe I get up to 50% more. I am under 300 and 400ws of HPS and penetration is very important with the lower powered lights. I have had great luck with Sensi SuperSkunk for short heavy production plants.

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  Quote stickyfingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2005 at 03:04

I preffer small compact indica plants 1 per square foot roughy,the trick to sog is taking cuttings that will end up the same size when finished,you can cut the bottom branches to promote 1 large collan this is good when you really want to pack them in close.

The small plants that are grown using 1 foot space should give you 4-5 oz the ones you cut and bunch up are more like 1-2 oz. Iwould recommend  a fast flowering indica,under 600w hps 4 plants per light,some people will argue thats to much light but at the end of the day its less plants and less trimming time.I have tried 8 plants under  600w the result was same weight,heaps more trimming and more space wasted.

Hope this helps you..

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  Quote stickyfingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2005 at 03:22

PS a growth gas generator wouldnt hert your cause either,get your room CO2 levels to 1400 ppm if you plan on large crops you will need this.

Using gas means you can totally seal your room,nothing leaves your room,and with large crops thats a good thing unless your living in the middle of no where,smell and odur will always be a problem even when using  carbon and ozone filters.

BIG CROPS STINK AND THATS THAT.



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  Quote ascendedmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2005 at 03:33

 

Do you have any heat problems?

What is your room temperature?

Do you know the surface temperature of your plant leaves?

What do you you use to reduce the heat in your grow room?

How often do you exhaust your grow room?

 

Please excuse my questions as I am very curious.

 

Originally posted by stickyfingers

PS a growth gas generator wouldnt hert your cause either,get your room CO2 levels to 1400 ppm if you plan on large crops you will need this.

Using gas means you can totally seal your room,nothing leaves your room,and with large crops thats a good thing unless your living in the middle of no where,smell and odur will always be a problem even when using  carbon and ozone filters.

BIG CROPS STINK AND THATS THAT.



Edited by Ganja
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  Quote Ganja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2005 at 15:39

edit- 'oxygen' changed to 'CO2'

G



Edited by Ganja
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  Quote stickyfingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2005 at 06:47

Burning bbq gas does create lots more heat,you will need a powerful little ac unit per room 2-5 hp works well along with mobile water filled ac for humidity

The idea is to burn gas so you dont need to bring CO2 inn your creating it,at much higher levels. Ithink outside level is 3-4 hundred parts per million,the air we breath. you will increase it by 1000 ppm,set your burner up to be on high when lights are on and low when lights are of because your room is fully sealed you wont need to exhaust any air out,no smell problems,each room may very on how many burners you need, using ac units you want your room at 28 no more it is a little tricky at first to set up but well worth the results, i have friends who live in really cold places that dont need ac units they just burn away, i guess it also comes down to how many lights are run. if its to hot in your room u can duct from a seperate room where the gas is burning,sucking it with fans blowing it into your room,you can even suck it thrue your plants using fans at either end of your room it just depends on how many walls you want to bang holes thrue.you will need carbon filters as well   pop them above your lighting they will clean your air of oddor and stale air i find the bigger fan blown filters work best. you can purchase co2 testing kits,you will need them to set up your levels. good luck



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  Quote Ganja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2005 at 12:08

For artificially boosted CO2 levels to lead to increased rates of photosynthesis and increased plant growth/production, you also need to boost the other key factors of photosynthesis - light, heat and nutrient.

If you're using a few thousand watts of light and your temperature is high, you can increase levels of CO2 and your plants can actually thrive in temperatures of 30*C and up (which would normally slow their growth). You'd also need to increase EC in order to supply the food necessary to produce extra plant matter.

Boosting all four of these factors in synch can lead to increased yields (meaning noticeably larger than the figures supplied by the breeder, or than your previous, non-boosted crops)

If you're using less than 1000w and your temperature is in the 20's, then you can give your plants all the CO2 they can use with a good extractor fan and air-in channel (or fan), which replaces the air constantly.

Allowing your plants access to the full amount of CO2 naturally available in the outdoors will allow them to reach their full potential.

ascended mind (below), extra CO2 is one of the only things that enables plants to grow well at higher temperatures (provided you boost the other elements of photosynthesis).

Also, a CO2 generator doesn't necessarily increase the heat of your grow-room. Perhaps, if it generates CO2 with a burning flame, but there are several other methods.

The Museum grow-room has a 'spaargeiser' in it, which is a small gas-powered hot water system used in most Dutch kitchens. This has a constantly burning pilot light, which emits CO2.

Generators have a constant pilot light, and ignite larger burners when switched on. But they don't need to run constantly to maintain 1000ppm.

I'm not too fond of flame-based generators just for the safety aspect of having an unattended flame in the grow-room.

Also, while heat may or may not need to be vented, burning gas to produce carbon dioxide can also release carbon MONoxide, which really does need to be vented. I don't know if different gases release different amounts of monoxide when burning. 

Venting to remove heat or toxic gas reduces the effectiveness of generating CO2 in the first place, as you'll be exchanging your enriched (but warm/toxic) air with normal 200ppm air.

If spending money on a system, a proper CO2 tank with regulator is a better option than a burner.

There's some good information on this page, including making a yeast-based CO2 emitter. http://www.1stmarijuanagrowerspage.com/how-to-grow-weed-8.html

On that page, the author makes a valid point about CO2 enrichment:

Even though CO2 enrichment can mean 30-100% yield increases, the hassle, expense, space, danger, and time involved can make constant or near constant venting a desirable alternative to enrichment. As long as the plant has the opportunity to take in new CO2 at all times, from air that is over 200 ppm CO2, the plants will have the required nutrients for photosynthesis. Most closets will need new CO2 coming in every two or three hours, minimum. Most cities will have high concentrations of CO2 in the air, and some growers find CO2 injection unnecessary in these circumstances.

 



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  Quote ascendedmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2005 at 03:50

If your room temperature is already high then increasing your Co2 levels with a Co2 generator only increases your heat problems.

85 degees Fahrenheit is max that I would use.

I would say 80 degrees fahrenheit is ideal when supplementing Co2.

Anything over 85 degrees F is only tolerable.

Refer to chapter 6 of "The Indoor Gardener's Bible" by George Van Patten

 

Originally posted by Ganja

For artificially boosted CO2 levels to lead to increased rates of photosynthesis and increased plant growth/production, you also need to boost the other key factors of photosynthesis - light, heat and nutrient.

If you're using a few thousand watts of light and your temperature is high, you can increase levels of CO2 and your plants can actually thrive in temperatures of 30*C and up (which would normally slow their growth). You'd also need to increase EC in order to supply the food necessary to produce extra plant matter.

Boosting all four of these factors in synch can lead to increased yields (meaning noticeably larger than the figures supplied by the breeder, or than your previous, non-boosted crops)

If you're using less than 1000w and your temperature is in the 20's, then you can give your plants all the CO2 they can use with a good extractor fan and air-in channel (or fan), which replaces the air constantly.

Allowing your plants access to the full amount of CO2 naturally available in the outdoors will allow them to reach their full potential.

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  Quote ascendedmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2005 at 03:59

If you suck the Co2 from a different room,  due to having heat issues, wouldn't you  still end up sucking the heat ?

Think about it, if you suck the Co2, you will still end up still sucking the heat produced in that room by the Co2 generator.

However, a person would not have nearly the same heat issues due to the heat of the pilot light always being on.

 

 

Originally posted by stickyfingers

Burning bbq gas does create lots more heat,you will need a powerful little ac unit per room 2-5 hp works well along with mobile water filled ac for humidity

The idea is to burn gas so you dont need to bring CO2 inn your creating it,at much higher levels. Ithink outside level is 3-4 hundred parts per million,the air we breath. you will increase it by 1000 ppm,set your burner up to be on high when lights are on and low when lights are of because your room is fully sealed you wont need to exhaust any air out,no smell problems,each room may very on how many burners you need, using ac units you want your room at 28 no more it is a little tricky at first to set up but well worth the results, i have friends who live in really cold places that dont need ac units they just burn away, i guess it also comes down to how many lights are run. if its to hot in your room u can duct from a seperate room where the gas is burning,sucking it with fans blowing it into your room,you can even suck it thrue your plants using fans at either end of your room it just depends on how many walls you want to bang holes thrue.you will need carbon filters as well   pop them above your lighting they will clean your air of oddor and stale air i find the bigger fan blown filters work best. you can purchase co2 testing kits,you will need them to set up your levels. good luck

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  Quote stickyfingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2005 at 04:33

This is probably alot for you to take inn at once I agree with ganja and what he has said, There is a serious grower in vancouver who has a web sight called GROW ROOM he has 100 lights and 1500 plants check it out, it will give you good ideas, but you will need to be hands on to really learn this skill. combining hydroponics and growth gas generators is cutting edge growing try it and you will see, you can even kill any bugs you might have bye increasing your amounts of co2 it  works really well to increase your yields and your plants look so much better than when you just duct air inn and out it works out for me this way i end up with roughly 1 extra crop per year using the gas,I dont have as many smell odur problems because  my room is air tight nothing leaves the room ec levels can be raised but dont go crazy to start with bring your plants up slowly see what they can handle. i have taken it that u intend on using a lot of lights. you are going to have to tailor your room the better you seal your  room the better this will work is the best advice i can give you. a good local grow shop should be able to take you from here,and deal with heat issues you will incounter,check out the sight it will make things clearer.  

good luck with your project.

good luck

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  Quote stickyfingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2005 at 05:03
you will need to run ac unit inn the area you keep you ballasts and your burner,if you have a small out door room conected to your house but with no access perfect knock a whole thrue run your leads and  air flow pipe inn. the fans sucking the air in will cool aswell it doesnt arive hot...
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  Quote ascendedmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2005 at 20:46

Please post a link to the site for others to see.

Is it www.growroom.com?

 

 

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  Quote stickyfingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2005 at 04:43

 The ultimate grow room.....Google search.

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  Quote ascendedmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2005 at 06:20

 

Check out this commercial growroom & commercial growing info.

 

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/3268.html

 

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/3368.html

 

 

Originally posted by stickyfingers

 The ultimate grow room.....Google search.

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