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super Skunk. a first grow. grow tent, CFL and LED

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ak50 View Drop Down
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  Quote ak50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 October 2012 at 19:03

Originally posted by alsc

btw, repotting is not so stressfull for plants.
your seedlings are healty and i don't think you gonna see some signs of stress. you gonna see a lot bigger plants preatty soon due to the bigger space they have.

 
Today they look the same as yesterday  :-)
  
Originally posted by alsc


3 or 4 liters pots are still too small IMO. you could finish with 6,5 pots or something like that. that's the minimum size IMO. i finish in 11 liters pots. last time i even used a 22 liters one and got a monster plant (but with a lot of bending work!).
agree.  did not plan that these will be final.  there are 10L air pots ready for next round... do you think I could have skipped this step?
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  Quote ak50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 October 2012 at 19:09
Originally posted by alsc

but then if you want to experiment, just go for it. if you have to deal with different heights, just raise the pots which need to be raised to get an even canopy. i normally use boxes under pots to raise them, very easy.
i don't understand what you say with "separate lights" but if you mean to add another light in there, be careful.
how big is the space you're growing? if it's just a 90x90x150 tent (centimeters), then i would suggest not to. lights bring in a ot of heat.
you're using a cfl right? how strong is it?
I'm all for experimenting  (see where this got me with the nylon bag :-)  )
space: 60x120
there's room for another light - and I already ordered one from aliexpress yest night.
and anyway - no heat issue - I plan on LED only.
so one is a 90W UFO (currently in the lab -cause one of the two driver burned (i now have actually 45W :-( )
and the new one gonna be 240W..... %3cool
 
the CFL for now is 120W.
my flight leaves in 4 hrs... it is to top or not to top - now!  - LOL
 
will update from the way...
 
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  Quote ak50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 October 2012 at 22:06
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  Quote alsc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 October 2012 at 15:22
yeah man, there she is, the topped lady!

about pots sizes and repotting, i would say yes, you coud have skipped the transplant in the middle. i mean, i don't do that, but you did right: the more steps the better it is.
i would say another 2-3 weeks in these pots and short before flowering the final one in the 10 liters ones.

good job and have a nice trip!

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  Quote alsc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 October 2012 at 15:25
btw i'm looking forward to see how you led setup for flowering will turn out!
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  Quote ak50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2012 at 16:58
Hi
since I am away can not even see for myself how the topping goes....  I am waiting pictures from home. as soon as I have something I will post.
in the meantime we have switched to feed every 2 days. with Bio Grow and alg-o-mic.
 
also when I'm back I'll provide more details on the complete LED setup I am going to use.
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  Quote ak50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2012 at 03:35

Ah….. the weekend. ....  Day 28.  

 

Being away I’m getting news from home… got some pictures to try to confirm my topping activity. looks like what happened actually is that I fimmed …..

Because the plants were so small, so ‘compressed’, there was no good condition for topping, so I simply cut the new coming as per the instructions.

 

So the pics I got today already show ‘something’ for #3 … hard to see but it looks like #4 also show new beginnings…

for #4 it is not very clear what’s going on J.

but I am told #3 has 4 new stems, so there it looks like a success

 

 
 
Another symptom I see in the pics is the tips of the leaves pointing upwards…. it’s in all of them incl #5.

 

Al I saw it in your diary.  that it might have been related to humidity and/or lack of air venting?

I also read somewhere about this might be related to magnesium deficiency ?

 

can’t advise the RH and temp there right now, don’t have the meter there yet….but I can only say that the last few days were hot.   So if anyone has a suggestion we can play it by ear…

 
a new pic of the entire garden J
 
#3 - is already 9.5 CM
#4 - 8.5 CM
#5 - 9.0 CM
all gained ~2 CM in 10 days
 
Feeding every two days.     (Bio Grow:  1.7 ml/L ;  Alg-A-Mic:  0.7 ml/L)
 
%3cig%3c
 
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  Quote alsc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2012 at 11:19
leaf tips pointing upwards most of times is a sign that the plant can't breath well: it is trying to dissipate as much moisture as possible.
i see you're misting the plants? i would stop now, they are no longer seedlings and that extra moisture in the air could prevent a nice respiration...
it could also be that the temps are too high... if temps get over 28-30 °C you need extra efficient ventilation to not stress your plants.
mag deficiency (considering you're using a nutes rich soil and are feeding) generally appears around week 4-6 of flowering  and generally shows itself with some the distinctive leaf yellowing and brown leaf tip (yes they curl upward once the mag def is about to kill that leaf), nothing like your pics.

BTW, the curling is minimal from these photos, i would say that maybe you just need more ventilation and air circulation.
BUT: YOU NEED a Thermo/hygrometer.
it is vital to keep these values under control. actually enviromental control might be the most important factor in indoor growing. (also it is a cheap instrument!)

other advices:
- get some catch trays and place them under the pots. that would prevent from messing the grow room with the runoff water and you would better understand each plant specific needs.
- the soil in the last pic looks a little too soggy (but i might be wrong): remember to water only when the pot has lost 2/3 of its saturated weight... in other words, when the pot feels a lot lighter!
- when you water, always get a little runoff water... once in a while check the PH of this runoff water. this way you can have an idea (even though not precise) of the soil's ph and therefore see if that plant has some ph lockout.
- 1 ml/l is enough biogrow. i wouldn't exceed this value, i never do. also it is smart to not feed at every watering.

good job with the fimming/topping! :-)
best, al.
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  Quote alsc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2012 at 11:58
p.s. why don't you get a nice reliable grow guide?

suggestions:
jorge cervantes "marijuana horticolture: the indoor outdoor medical growers' bible" aka "The Bible": a 500+ pages book which covers anything related to growing cannabis. very famous one.

R. C. Clarke "marijuana botany" a very interesting read. the father of all cannabis books.



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  Quote ak50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2012 at 17:23
Hey Al, thx for checking.

Nope, no more misting for a week already. I really think its heat. We'll chk over the coming days.

Also all metering equipment is already on its way :)

All pots are placed over trays. I am checking the runoff everynow and then, althogh I am using Coco-Perlite, not soil.

On feeding - yes, we will do a break every ~week
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  Quote ak50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2012 at 23:22

I’m back home %3coving%20it

 

and here’s a current status:

during the last week, continued the schedule of 2 feeds with BG, 1 feed water only.

 

#5 – proceeds as usual – no topping.       Gained height of  4 cm to  13 cm  (Day 33) in a week.

 

#3 – fimming looks good. –

 

 

#4 – Topping did not succeed – as I suspected, and she continued to grow, and became 3 CMs higher than the rest.

So – at the age of 35 days, and ~16 cm – we topped again.

this time, as she is much bigger and “clear” – there should be no doubt about it… -

 

And last…. as you can see by the colors of thes pictures, I  got the 240W LED (80x3W).

 

 

 

 

I Removed the 120W CFL, and will now monitor the progress….

in addition I still have 2 90W UFOs standing by…  one of them still requires some lab work…

with the 240W led, and with a simple 90 CM/s  ventilation, the temp/RH is  27 to 28 Co  /  52% to 60%

 

 

In parallel – I had to spray cause of whiteflies… used Neem oil based product, we’ll see in a couple of days.

Keep well all,

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  Quote ak50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2012 at 14:36
Hi all,
 
Day 41 and I need some help....  see pictures below.
I wonder if this can be only related to underfeeding.  due to some constriagns, they were last fed almost 4 days ago.. normaly they get it every 2-3 days.
 
another consideration is that it is related to the new 240W Leds.  the structure of the burn over all of them was just below the LED, and side branches were less affected.  some of the leaves are burned, some are looking healthy as ever.
On the other hand I could see more yellows on lower leaves. not only on the top.
and for the last 48 hours, the girls were actually touching the surface of the LED panel.  (I didn't see them for more than 48 hrs).
the new LED lights are there for 6 days already.
 
Last, is the fact that I heavily spreayed them with Neem oil.... last time was with the last feed - 4 days ago.
 
any ideas/suggestions?
 
 
 
This morning I fed them well.  GioGrow+Alg.a.mic.
I sperated one of the three to be under the 120W CFL.
 
Do I NEED to trim down the yellow leaves???
I think it will help me to see if new ones continue to get yellow or not...
 
any comment/suggestion will be like a wave of fresh air :-)
thanks
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  Quote alsc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2012 at 17:07
hey dude, sorry about this problem... to be honest, i have never seen this big and awful change in just 6 days.

to me it looks like a very big light burn maybe combined with neem oil burn: about this, why did you spray with neem oil? from what i know neem oil is organic but still stressfull for plants.

anyways i think they just got light burnt. don't ever let them touch the led panel. leds produce low heat, but still some and you have to find the right distance: closest with no burn. i can't tell you how far from the canopy because i have never used leds to grow...

no underfeeding for sure, if you fed them 4 days ago.

that big yellow fan leaf in the last pic was also touching the led panel?

EDIT: re-reading your previous posts i realized you had white flies and that's the reason for neem oil, sorry man!
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  Quote ak50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2012 at 17:44
Yeahhh so frustrating...
 
I did figure out it's time to repot...  I thought this was also part of this...
 
 
so here's the new arrangement -
 
 
I was planning to switch to 12/12 soon, because of the limited height. now I don't know if I should.  I'll have the LEDs a little further then the plants, and we'll see.
 
Al, I don't think that leaf touched the panel. actually there are many leaves there, on different heights of ht eplant, that are yellow, and for sure didn't touch it....  I heared something about bad LEDs burning plants.... :-(
 
BTW, what about cutting those yellow leaves down?   what are the best practices around that ? cut them? leave them to fall?
 
AK %3cuch
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  Quote alsc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2012 at 19:01
at this point i would let plants recover from the burn before starting remove damaged leaves.
some people cut off leaves that are gone yellow (but for other reason such as close harvest-time, N or other def or damages from insects such as spider mites) some don't.
let them recover and find the right distance.

that thing about "some bad leds burn plants" doesn't sound so logical to me. but i don't know leds for growing and i don't know what "bad" means in this case: maybe they reflect light creating a magnifying effect?

anyways, give them some time to recover before flip to 12/12.

good luck dude!
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